First, off the bat, these are research compounds and are not to be used for human consumption.
This website does not encourage or promote anyone use these compounds for anything other than research purposes.
All mentions in the below experiment pertain to a lab rat. From henceforth all personal pronouns such as “I” or “my” are officially referring to my lab rat and his “assumed perspective” on the effects of MK2866 and MK677.
After a solid 3 weeks of solid research on the entire world of SARMS, I decided it was probably one of the most cost effective ways to potentially up my anabolic gains with the absolute minimal amount of risk.
Just to answer the most commonly asked question of them all off the bat:
Q: Where is the most reliable place to buy Ostarine/Enobosarm (MK-2866) and Ibutamoren (Mk-677)?
A: Swiss Chems (lab tested, solid online reputation, solid customer support, solid pricing)
Also, if you want to skip the day-to-day user log and cut straight to the rest of the FAQs where I summarize what I learned from my research you can jump directly to that section clicking here.
Experiment Subject Background Details
For a little background, I have been training hard and 100% natty for the last 5 years straight, with 3 of those years being a morning/evening schedule working around a full-time job and 2 of those years being solid daily workouts while working from home.
I am 6’2 and weight ranges from 180-200 depending on the season. Since at the time of writing this it is fall, my body weight is closer to 180-185 coming off the lean tank top and short-shorts summer season of flaunting gains.
I train usually 5-6 days a week, a traditional “bro” split of push (chest, shoulders), pull (back) and legs.
In between these three rotations I mix in dedicated “supplemental” days.. perhaps a pure shoulder and arm day, perhaps a “forearm/neck/calves” day, essentially will just mix in days to focus on glaring weaknesses that seem to be lagging despite hitting major muscle groups with compound lifts on the press/pull/leg days.
As far as diet, I am not the strictest, I try to be flexible, mix in the intermittent fasting, avoid overly processed foods, sugars, etc.
For supplementation I’ve tried pretty much everything, from powdered “beef” protein (see original review here) to pricey new supplements like Muscletech’s Clear Muscle, a free-acid form of HMB (see original review of that here).
After years of trial and error and many wasted dollars, my regular supplementation consists of:
A solid pre-workout with transparent labeling. Currently using GAT Nitraflex. Before that was the shotgun 4-Guage preworkout, which is more well-rounded than Nitraflex, more similar to Betancourt’s B-Nox Androrush. You should be good to go with just about any transparently labelled and efficaciously dosed PWO.
Ordered a bunch of pump-enhancer PEScience Prolific and High Volume too, just to have a variety of stimulants and pump-enhancers on hand as to always maintain high-intensity workouts.
Pre-workouts help me get in the zone and combined with some solid tunes definitely increase the intensity of my workouts. Intensity=volume=hypertrophy=growth. Need the intensity to maximize the effects of the selective androgen receptor modulator compounds.
Intra-Workout Hydration + Luceine
Xtend BCAAs intra workout. I only started doing this a year ago, as I was happy getting my branch chains via whole food and protein shakes.
However, as years have worn on, my body has adapted and my workouts can now sometimes run 2+ hours, depending on the body group.
I have found BCAA supplementation, specifically Xtends with included electrolytes, really helps me power through long workouts without worrying about drastic catabolism.
Not necessary but again, I’m looking to hit this little recomp with everything I have, so no expenses are being spared.
Protein shakes. I’ve tried literally every brand of protein powder, usually defaulting to Optimum Nutrition’s Gold Standard as it is always readily available in 10lb bags and tastes inoffensive.
In the last year I’ve tried switching to a casein/whey blend. There have been studies showing protein synthesis tails out a bit after a workout, and where isolates and hyper-processed whey’s spike your system, they quickly digest out, leaving your body wanting. Casein digests slowly and drips aminos over a longer period of time.
For this reason I mix my shakes approximately 60/40 whey/casein. Protein supplementation is to maximize the actual muscle building process that’s kickstarted with the actual exercise and SARM interaction with androgen receptors.
Every few months I may take a break from the heavy dairy as it can easily reap havoc on my intestines if I’m not careful enough to get sufficient quantities of fiber in my meal plan. Vegan proteins usually have higher levels of fiber and are easier on the gut and make a good 1-month texture/flavor break from the whey as well seemingly giving my digestive system a break from the liquid mud production..
Diet While Undertaking Research
Living largely in Asia, my diet can sometimes be lacking in diversity, particularly when fresh fruits and vegetables are taken into account.
Chinese cuisine is pretty much entirely white rise and oily scrapes of meat, with the occasional worthless helping of boiled cabbage or other low-nutrient “green”. For this reason I supplement with a sport-designed multivitamin daily like Optimum Nutrition’s Opti-men.
I also buy the daily multi’s from Costco when I have the opportunity. On top of the multi I take a glucosamine/MSM supplement to help protect joints, as according to research (Examine) this supplement wont’ repair joints but have been shown to protect against damage.
I am all about preventative health. Finally, on top of the multi and glucosamine I always take a fish oil high in DHA. Fish oil is probably one of the most researched and healthy supplements, and it is cheap, so it’s always there.
My Reasons for Testing SARMS
As mentioned in the introduction, I have been lifting solid for about 5 years. I am happy with my physique; I have enough muscle mass to put me above probably 80-90% of “average” men on the street.
I have decent sized arms, fair traps, decent sized pecs, larger than average legs etc. On good days abs are decently visible, but due to a beer addiction, never really “cut” out of my stomach.
I feel my supplementation and diet is as optimal as it is going to get given current life constraints, including on the geographic location of my residence as well as my income.
Essentially, I feel I’ve gotten just about as far as I can naturally with just hard work and diet.
SARMS, or “Selective Androgen Receptor Modulators” seem to the be logical next step in crossing the “true natty” barrier into something a little more biologically engineered.
What are SARMS?
SARMs are engineered androgen receptor antagonists that help biologically increase muscle building by attaching directly to androgen receptors and causing them to increase muscle building, similar to how testosterone works but unlike testosterone that floods the entire body with hormone, SARMs have been engineered in laboratories to “selectively” target the androgen receptors (same ones stimulated by testosterone carpet bombing) without impacting other organs, which traditional test injections fail to do.
I like to think of it as real man’s “half natty”. The true definition of half-natty is a “natty” that looks “unnatural” because of angle/lighting/perfect instagram filter selection plus maybe having perfect carb timing/pump enhancement coursing through their veins.
However, for the purpose of this experiment and this blog in general, half-natty in this context will mean moderate supplementation with compounds outside of protein/creatine/etc but that are not injectable and which are more “moderate” in their ability to put on mass as well as their overall side effects.
My objective with SARMs is to achieve that excellent perfect light/angle/filter look but without the need for all those pre-requisites to be on point.
I want to look half-natty even with shitty lighting, noob angles/poses and with no instagram filters.
The key to achieving this modest goal I believe is strategic implementation of training and selective androgen receptor modulator use.
The key word here is “selective” in how these compounds work, targeting just muscle growth and bone/joint repair/health as apposed to carpet-bombing your entire system the way anabolic steroids do.
Bombing is a great analogy, showing how devastating carpet bombing (steroids) can be when collateral damage is taken into account.
SARMs on the other hand are more like much smaller, more tactical precision strike missiles, or at least this is how they are most commonly described.
Sure, a solid stack of steroidal compounds will most definitely yield more “impressive” results faster, but impressive is a relative term.
Again, my goal is not to be the next Ronnie Coleman; my goal is to just take my physique one step higher.
My optimal physique would be one that just borders on the “is he natty or not” territory…a look that blurs the line between what is possible with exceptional genetics (which I do not have) and gearing up.
So there you have it, the full “rat” history, ectomorphic body-type, training style, existing supplementation, everything. These factors will all remain constant during my SARM experiment.
The only change will be diet, as I will be spending time in both Asia as well as the U.S. My diet in the U.S is usually more whole-food based, sourcing much more protein from big chunks of meat, vs. Asia, where protein has to come more from shakes.
Which SARMs Brand Did I Use?
When working with research chemicals doing due diligence is of utmost importance because as SARMs are not FDA approved for human consumption, you don’t have the nanny state looking out for you in terms of safety, efficacy, purity etc.
I spent over a month researching different SARMs on the market and all the SARMs brands as well. I read every published user log I could find, many of which were not very detailed or cut off abruptly, which is a big reason why I wanted to record my own “master log”.
In all of my research one company stood out as being
A) the most popular and
B) the most transparent in terms of company executives using their own products. Popularity is obviously not a scientific measuring stick, but it does help reenforce a small sense of relative safety.
The more people that use “Brand A” for example the more opportunity for issues to be publicized.
The brand I chose to go with was Enhanced Athlete.
As mentioned, they are quite popular and many of the decent user logs published used their research chemicals.
They are also quite active on social media where they are very blunt and open about their own SARM research and the research of other Youtube/Instagram personalities.
So, in terms of safety and reliability I went with the pack and ordered both my MK-677 and MK-2866 from Enhanced Athlete.
*Updated January 2019 : Better SARM Source Recommendation
I previously stated that I used EA SARMs for this study. However, since publishing I’ve had a lot of people ask me if I still recommend them or if there were other vendors that were superior. Enhanced Athlete has been having serious issues delivering orders, not to mention some of their most popular compounds like Ostarine are regularly out of stock.
Well, I believe I have found the holy grail of SARMs sellers. The company is called Swiss Chems.
Swiss Chems Review
Swiss Chems research chemicals are THE best SARMs provider at the moment. I’m over the constant “out of stock” issues with EA as well as all the people claiming to not receive their orders.
I needed to find a better SARM provider and I definitely found that in Swiss Chems.
The reasons Swiss Chems are superior are as follows:
They are the only widely available U.S-made (Swiss developed) SARM supplier.
The single most argument fitness experts have AGAINST using SARMs is that you don’t know what you are getting because 99% of SARMs on the market today are coming from sketchy labs in China.
Swiss Chems uses American made SARMs, which means they have much more control over quality assurance than companies placing orders from random Chinese chem labs halfway around the world.
2. Consistent, Independent Quality Testing
They do 3rd party testing on every batch. Again, for every batch produced Swiss Chems goes the extra step of having the compound 3rd party tested for purity.
These tests are all made public for buyers to view. Nobody that I have found is doing anything like this at the moment.
3. Price & Variety
Swiss Chems not only is extremely price competitive, they also regularly have sales, always have compounds in stock, and offer more selection in terms of volume per unit.
Many other vendors offer limited dosing, meaning you have to order either way more than you need or be happy with a super short cycle because the volume of your original order is so low.
Swiss Chems offers Ostarine for example in 15ml, 30ml and huge 60ml bottles, meaning you can order precisely how much you need for your cycle.
When it comes to “Swiss Chems vs. Enhanced Athlete” or “Swiss Chems. iSARMS” or even “Swiss Chems vs. IRC.bio”, I believe Proven Peptides comes out on top because of their balance of quality, reliability, affordability and bottle size options.
***Updated November 2020: Proven Peptides was a reliable source too but has recently shut down. Swiss Chems is still up and running and so is IRC.bio which both make quality product****
Thus, if you are looking to do your own testing, I recommend you check out Swiss Chems. They have a stellar reputation with hard-core bio-hackers on Reddit as well as online bodybuilding communities.
What Exactly Is Being Tested?
For my first foray into the world of SARMS I’ve decided to go with MK-2866, also known as Ostarine, the most clinically trialed of the popular SARMs available for ordering online for research purposes.
Stack Component #1: Ostarine
This compound seems to be one of the safest. Over weeks of pouring over forums, blogs, and medical studies it seems to be the freest of adverse side effects.
Another attractive component of Ostarine its purported claims to help increase bone density and heal injuries.
I’ve broken multiple bones over my life and after 5 years of training natty and training HARD, I have my fair share of lingering issues (patellar tendinitis, left wrist pain, occasional left anterior shoulder/collar bone pain) and the idea of taking something to not only help build muscle but simultaneously strengthen bones and tendons sounds like an absolute miracle.
Safety is another huge factor. Unlike some other SARMs whose research has been dropped by major pharmaceuticals after negative side effects, like S-4, Ostarine is still being researched by Merck, one of the biggest “legit” pharma companies in the world.
They’ve completed full Phase I and Phase II clinical trials with Ostarine, which are the two biggest, and proceeding with Phase III, which is the last one (requiring testing over a loooong period of time with adverse demographics) before being approved for sale. You can bet your ass Ostarine will become a prescription drug within the decade.
So if billion dollar drug companies are looking to sell a compound you can bet your ass it is legit and relatively safe.
I have nothing against other SARMS, and if everything goes will with Ostarine may experiment with some more potent compounds.
For the time being though, just to get my feet wet, we will go with Ostarine. I recommend Swiss Chems MK-2866 as it is the most affordable, it is American made and all batches undergo 3rd party testing.
If you have some time on your hands it wouldn’t hurt to go through and check out the studies themselves:
Stack Component #2: Ibutamoren/MK-677
On top of that I am adding MK-677, also known as ibutamoren which while sold and grouped with SARMs is not actually a “selective androgen receptor modulator”, it is instead a “secretagogue”, meaning it encourages more secretion, in this case of your pituitary gland to release more growth hormone.
There is an astounding amount of anecdotal evidence online of the GH release stimulated by MK-677 or “Ibutamoren” to be comparable to that of medium grade growth hormone peptides (the injectibles used by IFBB pro type bodybuilders).
Thing is, real GH that you inject is expensive as all hell, thousands of dollars. MK-677 on the other-hand can be had for 1/10th the price or less.
Growth hormone is amazing. It does exactly what it is named; it helps your body grow. So it can help heal injuries, help build NEW muscle (whereas other gains are simply the increasing of existing muscle cell size, GH can help you actually create brand new muscle cells).
Users report better sleep, fat loss, muscle gain, even improved skin and faster growing nails and hair.
GH is a natural thing; our bodies produce a ton of it when we are young through puberty, i.e., when we are growing like weeds. As we age we produce less, and thus our bodies begin the depressing decline into slowly falling apart until we die.
Ibutamoren helps stimulate our own pituitary glands to produce more GH than it normally does.
For men, we usually just “pulse” out GH a few times at night when we get really good, really deep sleep and that’s it. Take into account all the nights you don’t get quality sleep and you can imagine how much GH you’re missing out on.
MK677 helps you pulse out GH throughout the day, at higher volumes, resulting in a large net increase in growth factors like IGF-1. This shit is directly responsible for healing, growing, and getting bigger.
MK677 has been studied extensively, just like Ostarine, and has been given to patients for up to a whole year straight without any significant adverse effects reported.
Again, for a solid, reliable and SAFE source of Nutrabol (branded name for MK-677) I would recommend Swiss Chems because of their transparency and competitive pricing. You can check their pricing here.
Many bodybuilders combine anabolic compounds with growth hormone to maximize training results.
Instead of spending tons of cash on expensive and risky steroids with injectable growth hormone, the combination of Ostarine and Ibutamoren together seem to be a satisfactory alternative.
Importance of a Long-Term, Safe, & Repeatable Cycle
Now Ostarine and MK677 are not as powerful as real steroids, however they are far more potent than any other natty solution on the market, and since this experimenter isn’t looking to compete at Olympia any time soon, this “strength” compromise for safety is one I am very happy to accept, especially when cost is taken into account.
Safety is key here with this cycle. I’ve worked very hard over years to build a physique to be proud of and do not want to fuck it all up by destroying a healthy endocrine system that has already proven itself to produce natty results to be proud of.
There are endless list of various experimental compounds available for purchase online, in addition to the obvious black-market steroids and other prohormones available via alternative channels.
Ostarine and Ibuatmoren were chosen for a stack because they seem to be the two most researched (including long-term clinical trials) compounds.
Suppression Planning and PCT Prep
One big factor to be taken into account is testosterone suppression. Steroids are dangerous in one way simply because they can cause complete shutdown of natural testosterone production.
This means when you stop injecting you are screwed without a proper “post-cycle therapy” or PCT. PCTs can include all kinds of different chemicals.
Steroid users will use aromatase inhibitors on cycle to prevent gyno and SERMs like Clomid and Novladex for PCT to help keep estrogen levels in check and encourage their own natural production of testosterone to resume.
PCT in itself doesn’t scare me; it’s the idea of going through all of it without proper blood work. Having your blood tested provides a clear benchmark.
You know where you are naturally and where you are on cycle and where you are after. You can compare these numbers and adjust PCT to get back to normal levels.
Given current constraints I am unable to do blood work, meaning everything I do will be based off “feel” alone. For this reason alone I am hesitant to try more hardcore compounds.
*Post-cycle Update* In retrospect I really should have had my hormone levels checked. First, it’s just good to know where you stand on the spectrum. If you are naturally on the lower end then trying things like SARMs may pose more risk and more serious options like TRT might be more prudent.
When I conduct future tests I will probably invest in some Nolvadex or Clomid just in case I have any sides as I would like to go higher doses and longer for my next cycle. Swiss Chems has both of them so sourcing shouldn’t be a problem.
Likewise, for the sake of safety, even though I “felt” fine afterwards it would be doubly reassuring to have actual numbers to look at to confirm this. I did some investigating and there are a whole bunch of DIY hormone test kits for men that you can get on Amazon which is probably what I’ll look into buying if I test again or test with something more suppressive like Ligandrol.
All of my research seems to indicate that SARMs are very mildly suppressive. Most reported cases of suppression occur with users dosing well over 25mg/daily, usually 30-50mg.
Suppression also seems more common in longer cycles, those exceeding 8 weeks in length.
For this experiment I will only be running 20mg (unless things go fantastic, in which case it could be upped to 25/30mg later on) and I will only be running a 6-8 week cycle tops.
I’d rather run multiple shorter cycles than one huge one that causes suppression.
Not having access to clomid and nolvadex (these are prescription) I can’t risk being fucked with an impaired endocrine system and no resource of action except waling into a doctors office like a retard.
So 20mg daily, 6-8 weeks tops is the plan. I am very in-tune with my body and if things go south will adjust.
I’ve also acquired some potent NOW Super Antioxidant pills containing a shit-ton of natural estrogen regulating herbs to take while on cycle to both just inject my system with a ton of healthy shit as well as hopefully keep estrogen in check.
I’ve also picked up a big bottle of RSP’s Prime T testosterone support. These seem to be the beefiest natural T booster on the market, containing all the good shit guys prescribe for SARMs PCT including DAA and DIM.
DAA is usually used even with SERM PCTs as it’s a potent and cheap testosterone kickstarter. Likewise, DIM is also a proven OTC aromatase inhibitor.
RSP doses both these and more ABOVE (although not grossly) the recommended effective doses, unlike most other test boosters out there. Therefore RSP was my mini-PCT/test-igniter of choice for this particular study.
I will take the antioxidants with my multivitamin/fish oil/glucosamine “maintenance” stack daily. 20MG Ostarine in the AM and 20MG MK677 in the PM. Will keep the RSP Prime T for PCT.
Will phase the cycle in at 10mg/daily for first week, then upping to full 20mg/daily dose for majority of cycle.
For the last week I will drop both back down to 10mg/daily for the last week and start phasing in the Prime T test booster at the same time to hopefully kickstart natural T production again should I be suppressed in any way.
Being a very cautious rat (that is how rats stay alive!), I am starting each compound at a small 10mg dose to see how my body reacts.
I will begin the MK677 first, and then work Ostarine in later. I want to phase them so I can measure the feeling of each separately.
After a week of 10mg/daily for each compound I will up each to 20mg/day, as this seems to be the sweetest spot in terms of efficacy and safety.
There are guys taking up to 50mg/day but this is when side effects like moderate testosterone suppression, headaches and difficulty sleeping start arising.
Seeing as I’m looking to both heal and rebuild, more moderate results from the 20mg dosing is perfectly acceptable.
I am not looking to become a mass monster from this stack, I am more looking to recomposition a bit..remove a bit of fat from the mid section, heal nagging issues and add a few pounds of solid, maintainable muscle in the process.
As touched upon the Ostarine will be taken in the AM and MK677 will be taken in the PM, as many users report lethargy and I prefer to be productive during the daytime.
Full Cycle User Log
Below is full documentation of the experiment. Everything here is just to provide other lab rats with a bit of background, daily impact, feeling, progress, side effects, gains, etc.
Started with 10mg MK677 90 minutes before bed. This seems to be a sweet spot where by the time you go to sleep the stuff is really kicking in and you can just pass the fuck out.
MK677 is supposed to increase appetite and people who take it in the morning, besides reporting lethargy throughout the day, say they are hungry as hell, and since I don’t want to screw my diet up completely, figure taking it and being hungry in my sleep will be smarter.
Sure enough, I passed the fuck out. In the morning I had no recollection of “drifting” slowly off to sleep like I normally do, I simply remember getting in bed, turning the light off, closing my eyes and then nothing. I had very intense dreams. Woke up super refreshed the next morning.
Everything else seems good, no bloat, no tingling in my limbs, no discomfort, just some very quality sleep.
Big breakfast, took my “health” supplements (multi vitamin/antioxidants/glucosamine/fish oil) along with my first 10mg of Ostarine.
Had some coffee, did some work, took some PEScience Prolific preworkout and went to the gym. Workout seemed exactly the same as normal in terms of intensity, energy and pump.
Took another 10mg of MK677 90 minutes before bed again. Again just passed the fuck out. So far so good.. I could see using MK677 simply as a sleep aid in the future as it seems as effective if not more effective than a double dose of Nyquil or other cold sleep aid.
Ostarine morning, 10MG. Preworkout, gym, had a great pump…impossible to delineate from PEscience High Volume pump supplement or Ostarine, although haven’t read anywhere that Osta is a pump-inducer so I’ll attribute it to the PEScience. High Volume.. bookmarking this for future use, one of the best pumps I’ve had in a while.
Had a huge dinner and met a couple friends. Had two pints of Guinness late. Contemplating skipping the MK677, although given it stays in you for 24 hours, figured already had some in me, and 10mg is such a small dose, there probably wasn’t much danger.
I know drinking on cycle is stupid. These two beers were drank slowly and couldn’t be avoided as I was seeing some friends I haven’t seen in years.
Will stick with the low 10mg dose for the next few days as I have another good friend getting married and will be in the wedding. This will ultimately result in consuming a bit more alcohol than I’d like on at least one more occasion.
Hoping low doses of compounds will keep them in my system so after the wedding I can up to 20/mg and immediately begin crushing it.
Nothing reported officially in regards to alcohol and SAMRS or secretagogues. Neither compound is hepatoxic, so the liver should be perfectly fine to deal with the drinks like it normally does.
Still, with research compounds, it’s best not to fuck about and of course, booze is a big hamper on gains, for natty and enhanced lifters alike.
10MG osta morning after breakfast. Slight headache. Not sure if from the two pints night prior with the MK677 or just the Ostarine itself as other user logs have reported headaches in the first week as well.
Been hitting it hard in the gym and will go light today, probably just some cardio and a bit of calve work.
Sleep has still been great; really love just passing out and getting deep sleep. Usually don’t have problems falling asleep but am a relatively light sleeper. MK677 seems to solve this problem.
Also been pooping quite a bit earlier than usual. I’m usually quite regular; drop a deuce only after breakfast and the first cup of coffee. Yesterday and today had to poop as soon as I woke up. Probably coincidental but logging it regardless.
Same 10/10 split, no alcohol and no headache. Given two previous times consuming moderate (two pints) amounts also corresponded with mild headaches I’m confident in assuming some correlation.
Correlation not causation, as I could very well have been dehydrated and maybe Ostarine or MK677 exacerbates that.
Good workouts, plowing through without much fatigue, although working out in a properly air conditioned space (as opposed to stifling Asia) is a bit weird as even flat out I struggle to break a sweat, which is weird.
Upped the Ostarine to 20mg today, taken around noon, an hour or so before working out. Had a great workout.
Other factors included PEScience Prolific pre, an Xtends BCAA + PEScience High Volume intra-workout and of course an obligatory post-workout casein/whey blend protein shake. Feeling great. 10mg MK-677 90 minutes before bed.
Same 20mg Ostarine as the previous day before workout, had a FANTASTIC workout, although it was shoulders+arms and well, those are always pretty glorious.
Upped the MK-677 before bed to 20mg as well as it seems this is the most commonly dosed amount. However falling asleep was actually quite difficult and I felt like I could feel my pulse in my temples.
Don’t own a blood pressure tool so just waited it out. Crap sleep. Feel maybe too big of a jump for me. Going back to 10mg as the sleep quality alone makes it much more preferable.
Read a study about MK-677, one set of subjects received 10MG while another received a 50mg.
The GH levels both looked pretty jacked up, with the 50mg dosage being higher naturally, but not by that much, making me think perhaps 10mg ED over a loooong period of time (6+ months) might be the way to go. (Study: https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/82/10/3455/2823475/Oral-Administration-of-Growth-Hormone-GH-Releasing)
The discrepancy here between amounts of GH and IGF-1 measured between the 10mg and 50mg dosages were noticeable, although the 50mg returns were not 5X the 10mg, making it seem like this amount is overkill.
Still there are other studies showing that while both low and high dose produce similar levels of GH, the higher dose resulted in specifically more IGF-1, the muscle-building agent we’re looking for.
The difference isn’t that much, with mean increase for 10mg at +19% and mean increase for 50mg (5 times the amount) at +29%.
In this same study the serum IGF binding protein-3 increase for 10mg was 1.7 micrograms vs. 50mg at 2.2 micrograms. Is this .5 increase at 5 times the amount mean a bump from 10mg to 25mg (half the study’s 50mg) worth it?
High GH is still beneficial, for healing, joint repair, skin benefits etc. IGF-1 is still increased with 10mg, just not quite to higher 50mg.
Some recommend 25mg a good happy medium, although if it ruins your sleep then you have to weigh that cost vs. pro.
Personally, not happy if I’m not sleeping so back to 10mg. Will give 20mg another couple of shots, maybe try in the daytime, although people report more lethargy when taking in the AM so this may present a whole new set of problems.
We’ll see where I ultimately end up. My original idea combining the MK-677 with Ostarine was to support muscle development, not specifically create it like bodybuilders taking large amounts of GH do.
Essentially I am training very hard. 1.5-3 hour sessions depending on muscle group. Diet, supplementation, rest all on point. Leaning mostly on anabolic nature of Ostarine for lean gains, thinking the MK-677 can just help “glue” these gains together by helping with recovery and rebuilding during rest/off time.
This is all conjecture, but the general aim. Sharing to give you an insight into why combing Osta with MK and why I’m choosing dosages that I am.
Side note, up a bit in weight, from about 190 to 196. Not particularly vascular and drinking tons of water. Maybe had a huge shit in me too, idk. Still happy to see weight go up as long as my abdominal definition remains unchanged.
20mg MK-677 with breakfast consisting of 4 slices of cinnamon raison toast with butter, full glass of cashew milk. After this sipped on one cup of coffee while working. Did not notice the MK-677 in my system at all, and did not experience any lethargy as the day wore on.
Think I will continue to does in the AM, contrary to many reports of people preferring PM dosing. Try both to see what works best with your body and routine.
Pretty happy taking Ostarine in the afternoon, either with lunch, or with a small carb source before working out. Did chest/shoulders, had great pump, look visibly bigger afterwards, probably GH water retention.
Still taking my usual multivitamin, glucosamine/msm, fish oil in the AM. Have also been taking Now Super Antioxidants pills since being on this SARMs cycle as they contain some of the best natural aromatase inhibitors with actual research. So far so good, no bitch titties, no bad feelings at all actually.. just great workout sessions.
20mg MK-677 AM, 20mg Osta lunch. Was planning an off day but been at my desk all day, getting a little stir crazy. Considering dirty leg night session after dinner.. we will see.
Still feeling great, still no real side effects, none of the tingly sensations in limbs as often reported by MK users. Appetite too has seemed to return more to normal. Can’t tell if skin is improving so probably not yet.
No side effects from the Osta either, same libido, same energy, same nut size, no mood changes or anything. Only noticeable difference seems to be consistently awesome gym pumps.
Nothing really out of the ordinary to report, still having wonderful workouts. Part of it is definitely the PEScience Prolific, doesn’t hit you all jittery with a ton of caffeine like so man PWOs, instead sneaks in and before long you’re 20 hours in and still busting out 18/16/14/12 sets. Great stuff.
Pumps are always sick. People have reported better pumps with just MK-677 alone, although my rat is dosing that in the morning with breakfast and not working out until later in the day, not sure if still causing, or if some combination with Ostarine.
DOMS have decreased significantly as well. Barely feel anything in chest/back after their respective days.
Even after a long hamstring/glute/calf day, which usually cause the most brutal, lasting DOMS didn’t feel much. This equates to increased training frequency, as I don’t feel limited at all after what would normally be a brutal workout.
No more headaches, I’ve determined that was part of some type of acclimation period. Have had days where I’ve had 2-3 drinks and haven’t had any issue. Obviously trying to keep it to a minimum here.
So, still going 20mg MK-677 in the AM, which is not resulting in any lethargy now, and 20mg Ostarine an hour or so before working out.
Starting to see visible changes in the mirror. People say Osta doesn’t really get going until week 4 or so, however I think this is a misnomer, in fact Osta starts working right away, it’s just that gains come slowly and people only “notice” changes after they’ve accumulated over 4 weeks or so.
Seeing more veins too. They aren’t popping out in a freakish way, but even the day after a workout, can just see big thick green veins in places I hadn’t really notices before, including pecs and anterior deltoids. Bigger veins=more blood, so that’s cool.
Updating in blocks now as the dose has been the same for quite a while and been busy in the gym putting in the work to see the most optimal gains.
Current weight is up to 205, give or take a large dump. Put on a little water, some fat, been in mini-bulk mode.
Didn’t really set out to go this way, but the MK really helps the appetite, and helps recovery, so big long days in the gym result in big heavy meals before and after.
What else… had a night where I went a little deep on some good high percentage alcohol stouts, didn’t die, so doesn’t seem to be any serious problems with booze and either MK-677 or Ostarine.
Still, just because you can’t see it doesn’t mean it is harmless, not to mention drinking doesn’t help the gains, so obviously best to avoid, which I am regularly, that was just an indulgence/cheat night.
MK-677 is interesting.. can definitely feel it working. The lethargy is weird, it’s not like straight up drowsiness but more of a, I just want to lay down a bit and watch South Park. Not horrible, but not great for productivity.
Growth Hormone is an amazing thing for health, so I’m pumped to be on it, but kind of miss the more productive, focused working mornings without.
Will be traveling for a week coming up, hotel has a gym but not nearly as well equipped as what a bodybuilder needs.
So to prepare I have been putting in 200% the last week and a half, maximizing the intensity of my workouts and will use the travel week as an opportunity to “de-load”.
Will combine a whole bunch of lighter weight, high rep, full body kind of stuff with cardio next week and then hit it hard when I return for another week or two.
Looking right now like this cycle will only be 6 weeks or so. Many recommend 8 weeks for max results, but with travel and uh, life, that won’t be possible this time.
Still, plan on re-ordering both, running a 2nd cycle in a few months. What’s better, one long cycle or two medium length cycles? Hard to say.
Oh, been taking RSP Prime T testosterone booster a couple days a week. Idea being I just want to have something stimulate my natural T production to hopefully keep it from just spiraling out of control. I think of these t booster days as “speed bumps” in my suppression. Yeah, complete broscience, I know.
Otherwise everything all good. Long intense workouts, good recovery, no headaches or trouble sleeping, occasional numbness in limbs, but nothing scary or alarming.
Finally finished my supply of Ostarine. Had a week spent traveling visiting family, so took it as a solid de-load, used the gym hotel to do some full body light workouts.
No adverse side effects, still great workouts, great pumps, weight slowly increasing yet.
Libido seems down a bit. Not completely gone, but noticeably down.
Weighed in before Thanksgiving dinner at 203.8 pounds. This is up considerably from the 185lb start weight, although I would not attribute it all to the SARMS.
First, my diet has completely changed, from a very lean Asian diet with minimal dairy to a dairy-saturated heavy on the meat and carbs Midwest diet. This has always resulted in more gains when back, although not quite the 18 pounds I’ve put on over the last month and a half.
The MK-677 was definitely a big contributor, I know I’m holding more water, but look big and can still make out 4 squares of my abs so don’t feel like a fat fuck.
MK-677 seems like a miracle chemical for hard gainers looking to bulk and who have struggled in the past as it gives you the appetite of a lumberjack.
Conclusion and Future Plans
Now that I’ve exhausted the Ostarine I’m entering a light PCT consisting of daily RSP Prime T, which contains studied dosages of clutch anti-estrogen and natty test support ingredients like DIM, DAA and Fungreek.
I’ll continue MK-677 with the Prime T during the PCT. Will run for a month, tapering at the end.
Will go a few more months and then try another cycle, this time with a much leaner Asian diet, as I’m curious how these two compounds will work at a neutral calorie intake, or in a deficit.
I know, many will say, why not just do one long cycle without the gap. Honestly, if I didn’t have to fly around the world, meet with people, change diet and lifestyle so much these few months I probably would.
If I went for 8+, maybe 10 weeks I’d also want to have a legit SERM on hand like Clomid or Nolvadex just to be safe. By breaking this down into two 7-week cycles, hopefully by the end I can obtain similar, if not more, amounts of muscle if going straight for 10 weeks. (14 weeks in two cycles vs. 8-10 weeks in one long cycle).
Maybe this is idiotic, I don’t claim to be a SARM scientist… just doing some experimentation.
That’s about it. Overall quite happy.. you read so much sketchy stuff on the interwebs.. guys named “Chadmeister69” on random forums saying all SARMs will “shut you down bro”, or people claiming all kinds of crazy sides.
Sure, no doubt some people probably have adverse side effects. Some people die if they eat peanuts, or get stung by bees.. hell, A LOT of people have these reactions, so there are bound to be some who react negatively to SARMs, this is just population statistics.
For example, if you are cursed and “skinny fat” and always kind of had bitch tits, if you take a bunch of SARM’s maaaaybe you’ll flair your tits up. But this type of person shouldn’t be fucking with SARMs in the first place.
First they need to see a doctor and get their tits sorted out with a SERM or something. Then they need to lift to within 80-90% of their genetic potential, AND THEN they should look at how SARMs can help them get to the next level.
Personally I found the whole process completely enjoyable and feel it provided a solid ROI. Little increased acne, feeling like I had higher blood pressure in the beginning, numb/tingly limbs, and very slightly reduced libido were the only notable sides for me and they didn’t disturb my daily living whatsoever.
If you’re looking to run your own test and want a reliable vendor for your compounds, then I highly recommend you check out Swiss Chems.
After all my digging they are the most trusted, most often recommended brand in private bodybuilding FB groups and online biohacking communities.
Additional MK-2866 (Ostarine) & MK-677 (Nutrabol) Stack Quick FAQs
In case you were too lazy to read the log, below are some FAQ’s I squeezed out of my rat:
Q: What SARMs provider did you use for this study?
A: I used Enhanced Athlete’s SARMs for this experiment, simply because I was exposed to them first via Youtube and Instagram. I haven’t stopped researching quality suppliers though and have found Swiss Chems to be a much better source, both because they have transparent 3rd party testing and because they have a generally much higher reputation in bodybuilding circles around the web.
Q: Are SARMs worth it?
A: Depends on your starting point. Haven’t been lifting for 3+ years and not within 80-90% of your natty genetic potential? No.
If been lifting solid for 3+ years, with a well rounded program (full body, no biceps only bros), solid diet, and looking to step up without going full roids, then yes, do some research!
Q: Will I get gyno from Ostarine?
A: They don’t aromatize so you shouldn’t. You can supplement with some aromatize inhibitors. NOW Nutrition antioxidants is a good one.
RSP Prime T is another great test booster/estrogen controller, packed with DIM and DAA, so you can stop if need be and reverse trends.
That said everyone reacts differently, some people die from peanuts and bee stings, so research and caution is always warranted, with literally everything ingested in life.
Q: Will I get gyno from MK-677?
A: No, MK-677 is not a SARM, all it does is push your own system to naturally produce more GH.
Q: Can I stack Ostarine and MK-677?
A: Sure! Ostarine is the anabolic and MK-677 is the GH, this is a weaker, oral only version of what many bodybuilders do with injectables, such as test and GH peptides.
Q: Is Ostarine legal?
A: Yes, for research purposes, so don’t be an idiot.
Q: Can you drink alcohol while on Ostarine?
A: Probably shouldn’t but my rat did almost a week of 2-3 drinks daily without any “apparent” negative consequence. Same with MK-677.
Obviously, I can’t see my liver so who really knows. 6 months later though still kicking it and healthier than ever, so doubtful of any damage.
Q: Is MK-677 uncomfortable? Does it make you super tired?
A: MK-677 can make your limbs numb and make you a bit lazy; at least that’s my experience. The lethargy is comparable to the day after smoking pot and getting really high…just a little slow, calm and happy to curl up and take a nap.
Q: What’s the best time to take Ostarine?
A: Many recommend right away in the morning. 30-45 minutes before a workout was most fun for me as it seemed to increase quality. After the first week of 20mg ED dosing timing didn’t seem to matter quite as much.
Q: What’s the best time to take MK-677?
A: This one was odd. For the first week or so, taking MK before bed was a joy as it knocked me the fuck out quite quickly, putting me in deep solid sleep through the night
After the first week though sleep quality diminished and the sedative effect seemed reduced. I then started dosing it in the morning with breakfast and multivitamins/fish oil etc. Followed with coffee energy levels stayed functional.
Q: Are SARMs natty?
A: Natty and non-natty is not black and white. Protein powder and creatine monohydrate powders are not natty really, they are engineered supplements, and so are SARMs.
Got any other questions? Let us know in the comments below.
I’m the first one to leave feedback? Come on bros. Dude put a lot of work into this. Just wanted to say thanks. Also, my muscles sometimes tingle a bit, at seemingly random intervals. I always interpreted that as good. Happening less often now. So I plan to order MK677 in the next week, for research purposes. My RED [rest exercise diet] routine is in check but I think father time is starting to land some blows. Time to punch back with help of MK677. Great site and info, thanks again.
Hey Craig, thanks for the feedback! Just wanted to share my full experience as this is the kind of thing I was looking for when considering the experiment. I’ve just started experimenting with MK677 again this month at lower doses (10mg) which is good for general health and longevity. Only time I’d do bigger doses if I was in a full bulk as anything over 10mg makes me hungry like no other. Let me know how your own research goes!
Hi I read your guide, great job! It’s exactly like the cycle I was considering for myself. Been all natty til now. Hard gainer I can work two jobs be dad and go to gym 5 days a week and eat everything in site and if I’m lucky really lucky I’ll hit 165. Been that way forever so that’s why sarms. I’ve done lots of research but I definitely got 25 mg caps of each Osta and 677. I’m concerned that the dose may be too much to start out, noticed you took less of both at first think I would be good with 25mg each or should I buy some more to start at 10mg on both like you. Other thing that concerns me was decrease in libido. Did that ever go back up without bloodwork and scripts from doctors? Did the decrease make it impossible to have sex or masturbate? I have a fiancée and don’t want her to not be able to get what she needs… one of my biggest concerns about the whole thing really. Anyways thanks for your input. Good job again on consistent logs/ test.
Glad you liked the log. I think MK-677/Ibutamoren is great for hard gainers because it tends to make you hungry AF…like almost insatiable, which is a great way to add mass but makes this secretagogue not great for cutting. I think when conducting any type of research it’s important to first know the quality of what you’re using to test with (safely manufactured, tested for purity etc) and then to ease the test subjects into it. The thinking here is in case there is a problem, it’s better to have it be a SMALL problem as opposed to jumping all the way in and having bigger issues. Not saying that’s going to happen but at least for my log I wanted to ease myself in as it was my first experiment. Regarding libido it did return. All I took for PCT was RSP Labs Prime T test booster, on top of my regular multi/fish oil/joint support and I was just fine. Everyone is different though and this is in no way supposed to be advice, just sharing my personal experimentation results 😉
Amazing log! Very well organized and well written. Thank you for putting the time in. Most other people online like to start a log but never follow through. LAME.
Hey JK, glad you found it useful. I intended to be as detailed as possible because prior to researching I consumed all the logs I could to better evaluate risk/reward. Like you say, lot of unfinished logs or incomplete information.
Thanks for the excellent log! very complete, i also started using this stack after lots of years of natty training to see how it goes, but i read in many places that ostarine and mk 677 should be taken simultaneously either am or pm, i tried am but like i get too sleepy and hungry so pm is best for me, do you think i should take RSP prime T while on cycle or after cycle? i can feel a slighty reduced libido like you said but nothing to worry.
Thanks again for taking the time to write down all this info!!
Hey Fabiano, thanks for the kind words! Before testing I spent days scouring the net for more complete Osta/MK logs and was regularly disappointed so really tried to keep a more detailed log here.
On timing of MK, I believe because it has a half life of 24 hours you can take it whenever it works best for your lifestyle and it will still work synergistically with other SARMs like Osta. I originally tried PM but after a week or so it stopped sedating me and I believe kept me up at night, so I switched to the AM. For the first week of AM dosing I felt quite lethargic but that seemed to steadily dissipate until I didn’t really feel it. Maybe there’s an acclimation period, or maybe taking it with breakfast followed by a strong cup of coffee was enough to offset the tired feeling.
I used RSP Prime T-booster as my PCT. I feel like it worked out well but I don’t have blood work, so I don’t really know how much suppression there really was, so thus, can’t say how effective the T-booster was exactly. I’m planning a longer Osta cycle later this spring, like 12+ weeks, so may look at other solutions like on-cycle estrogen management with Arimistane. Will save the T-booster for post-cycle to help kick-strart natty test production again (active ingredients in RSP Prime-T that help kickstart test production being the D-Aspartic Acid and 3,3’Diindolylmethane/DIM).
What kind of numbers were you putting up pre cycle to post cycle? Did you measure your 1rm before and after?
Hey Lu, I rarely 1RM, like biannually. I’ve found, at least for my lanky ass body type, that high volume works better for gaining weight. I also have managed to avoid shoulder and knee issues these last few years as a result of going less weight, higher volume.
So incline bench I might go 105X14 warm up, then 145X16, 165X14, 185X12, 205X10. I apply a similar set/rep range to most exercises minus squat because I’d die of a hard attack trying to hit that kind of volume.
Volume was easier on cycle, I found myself adding a 5th or sometimes 6th working set, especially on isolation work. In terms of strength output though, I’m afraid I don’t have any data. Looking to run pure Osta for longer later this summer, will definitely do a before/after 1RM for bench/squat/deadlift then!
Hi Erik.. I thoroughly enjoyed your post and appreciate the detailed work that you put into it.
I am a 77yr old male still in relatively good shape. It is my quality of life I am concerned about and after reading your posts and doing research on LGD-4033 and Mk-677 I have ordered some.
I have read that this stack is ideal for the older person as well as it helps bone density and reduce muscle wasting
I want to keep out of a rest home for as long as possible and die on my feet (so to speak)
At present I am getting 3 monthly Testosterone injections (sanctioned by my doctor and a specialist).
I am also taking, unbeknown to them, 50mg DHEA and 100mg Pregnenolone daily.
I also do daily workouts on a commercial vibration platform as well as a series of isometrics and mild resistance.
I will let you know how i’m getting on after I start.
Yeah some of the most promising clinical research done for Endobosarm/Ostarine has been done on older subjects. It seems like a miracle chemical!
This study in particular on elderly men and postmenopausal women showed a “dose-dependent increase in total lean body mass that was statistically significant and clinically meaningful. There were also significant improvements in physical function and insulin resistance.” -https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3177038/
If you’re already in shape, actively working out and on TRT I would imagine the results mentioned in the above study would be exponentially greater for a individual like yourself.
I am definitely curious about your research!
Your input and online-log-information, for the ones willing to start samrs is remarkable.
What still interests me is, how much and what to expect from a MK2866 and S4 cycle (8weeks)? Not much was found on the web regarding geniune experiences in relation to post cycle results! (Fat loss/muscle gain)
Have trained for over 3.5 years and tend to accumulate some fat round the waist line (pretty loose : in case it is due to water retention what would you suggest for that as well.
Glad you liked the log. When I did the MK2866 and MK677 cycle I was bulking hard, so gained a ton of weight, with a lot being fat. After cutting in the spring though I settled in at about 5-6 pounds heavier than was was at the same time the year before.
I’ve never tested S4 so I can’t offer any opinion on that. I do know that how much you gain or how much you want to recomposition largely comes down to your workout plan and diet. This summer for example I ran only MK2866 and gained weight while burning fat, which was very different than the above log which involved zero fat burning.
Let me know how your experiment goes, I’m curious about S4 myself 🙂
Thanks for the log. Very well written and informative.
I’ll be starting a rad140 (testolone) + mk2866 (ostarine) 8 week cycle in the next couple days, been working out natty for the last 10 years. I’m not looking for crazy results, just want to see a few progression in my body for a change.
Hey Jose! Sounds like a cool test! Never tested with RAD140 myself, curious your results.
Thoughts on someone who is a noob lifter and hasn’t yet made noob gains taking ostarine? Will it help me make my gains quicker?
Hi John. I would never recommend any sort of PED to a noob lifter. Quality gains don’t come quickly, and trying to rush things with PEDs is a dangerous strategy. Take your time, learn your body, max out your natty potential (2-3 years of lifting) and then I’d consider looking into PEDs.
Hi! Really great post. Thank you. One question I have is how did you accurately measure out 10mg from a Proven Peptides dropper?
I have my own measured syringe for drawing research chems. But also, I’m not that accurate, so 10mg may also be 8mg or it may be 12mg.. I ballpark with my research because my test rate is 200+ lbs and can handle it.
Good blog. I don’t think you ran the MK677 or Ostarine long enough to see results. I’m on week 8 of a stack of LGD4033/Ostarine and MK677 and only started to see increase in stregnth from week 6. You also have to consider you under dosed for the first part – as you admit to being ultra cautious. From studies and individuals posting experiences MK677 can be pretty much run year round without sides and takes at least 3 months to see full benefits e.g improved recovery, joint repair, hair/skin improvements. Ostarine is pretty weak on its own, I took it in isolation around 18 months ago and found very little benefit, the LGD really adds endurance. As a classic ectomorph (like yourself) I would question your rep ranges? I know we’re all different, I’m 6ft 3inch started off 13 years ago at about 150lbs and am now 248lbs. Natural with the exception of my recent deluge into SARMS. I really had to lower my reps and increase weight to break past the weight you are at now. I only say this as this was your reasoning for taking SARMS as you believed your genetic potential was naturally reached. Based on your training there is much more in there without reaching for SARMS. You may have to accept a few extra pounds around the mid section- but only for a short period. Increase intake, reduce reps, increase weight, restrict cardio and then cut back down gradually once you have increased overall mass. From the classic ecto!!!
Hey Chris, thanks for sharing!
You are right, I’m sure I have more natty potential in me, and I did under dose for this first test. I still did gain weight faster than previous and once I shred down this summer feel like I had a bit more muscle retained in places I’ve always struggled to develop like my deltoids.
But yeah, now that I’ve run it and my lab rat didn’t die I’d like to do a longer cycle, probably switch it up and give LGD a go this time around. Need to find a reliable source for SERMs (precautionary) first though.
Are you currently logging your Osta/LGD + MK677 cycle now? Very curious to hear about progress especially given your experience level and impressive starting weight of 248 at over 6 foot.. you seem to be what every hard gaining ectomorph aspires to become!
Great post …. thank you! This is a different question I’m not sure you can help me with. I am 5’6″ 135lb 46 year old male. I am an avid runner. Been running for the last 10 years and for the last 2 years or so have hit a plateau. Would ostarine help someone in this situation? If so what dose would a “rat” of this stature need? Thanks!!
Hi Shannon! Dosing is weight dependent so you’d just factor less for your body weight. I’d guess around 20-25mg for a 135lb male.
I think there are better SARMs for endurance though. Derek at More Plates More Dates has a great post dedicated to the subject here: https://moreplatesmoredates.com/the-best-sarms-for-endurance/
This is Amazing, 46 years Old Male, Working out for more than 10 years, hit the plateau long time ago, never interested in Steroids but always wanted second option. your Blog is a treasure. I was thinking about the same combination.
thank you very much to put that much effort on this. You helped me a lot!
Glad you found some use in it. Never too old to make new gains!
Very good read and thanks for conducting this research
My ‘rat’ has decided to do the same cycle as your one, as the ‘rats’ seem to have a common end goal
Just have one quick question:
What size bottles did your ‘rat’ purchase in order to be able to do this study for the whole 2 months (at 20mg per day)?
Hey Peter! Funny how so many rats have the same goals in life eh? I ordered 4 bottles but had some left so I ended up running a micro-dosing test a month ago (no results worth reporting). Better to over-order than under-order as it would suck to have to halt a test right in the middle while you wait for Fed Ex or UPS to get you the goods..
Great info thanks! Have you come across any info on Ostarine drug interactions? I take Zoloft (ssri anti anxiety) and wondered about any known interactions with Ostarine? I couldn’t find anything online
Hi Jayvee, I’m not qualified to comment on this. I remember searching for interactions with alcohol and couldn’t find much either.
Thanks for the write up! I’m 3 days into an Osta cycle myself and just wanted to ask if you noticed significant changes after doubling the dosage? I’m currently taking 10mg a day but plan to increase to 20mg within the next 1-3 days.
Hey Harry! There was never a point in my test where I was like, woah, now I’m seeing a distinctly significant change. The significant change was realized at the end at weigh in.
Was there a drop in the body weight after the cycle? Did you manage to keep the muscle gained during the cycle?
No I actually held on to most of the increased weight, even when I upped my cardio later on. Ostarine gains seem to stick.
Great log, I appreciate the time and effort you put into this. I had a few questions. When you we’re taking MK-677 was the desire to eat so strong that it couldn’t be controlled? Was the lethargy only for a limited time while your body adjusted? Did you notice any benefit to your tendons? In regards to the Ostarine, how long did you need before you felt like your T had recovered? What about libido?
I’m thinking about starting a cycle but really looking for a close to clean bulk. I’m big enough (5’11 210,10bf) although I wouldn’t mind adding a little more but really don’t enjoy doing a bulk followed by a significant cut phase. I think that depletes too much of the muscle acquired and let’s face it, counting calories for a cut sucks.
Are you still taking MK-677 at a 10mg daily dose? Do you have any other updates?
Hi David, The initial first couple of days the increased appetite from MK was INSANE. Over time though either I acclimated and adjusted or it dissipated as it wasn’t out of control. I think it’s possible to do a lean bulk with MK you’ll just probably over-eat the first week until you can get it under control or adapt. Lethargy was also limited or I adapted. Tendons it’s hard to say. My left knee which occasionally bothers me while squatting still bothers me though, although that’s a very arbitrary measurement of any real cellular level impact it may or may not have had. Didn’t notice big libido change for this documented log, however 4-5 months after I tried microdosing over a slightly longer time period and felt that impacted libido more. Still, within a few weeks I was back to normal (again, rough approximation going based on “feelings” here not blood work).
If you have access and the budget I’d highly recommending checking blood before and after to see T level impact. I plan on doing a LGD study here in a month or so and plan on having accompanying bloods to put everything in better perspective as opposed to sharing feelings/gut reactions.
As for your personal plans, man, how you experiment is 100% up to you. The main reason I did this first log with Ostarine was it’s passed Phase II clinical trials and online anecdotal evidence both make it out to be extremely safe, non-suppressing and “clean”. I hear you on wanting to add some mass without going through the stress of a bulking then cutting. I do think Osta is great for this.
Not taking anything at the moment, been undergoing big life changes (relocating across the world, new job, etc) so haven’t done much testing although I plan to look into LGD here once I get back into a healthy routine.
If you don’t blog please shoot me a message if you find the time, I’m always looking to get more data and learn from other peoples tests.
All this research and data and no before and after pics?
Yeah I dun gone and fucked that up.
Awesome read! Very entertaining and informative. I never leave comments but felt compelled.
In the early stages of running Mk-677 with Ostarine/Cardarine. Going for Recomp. Trying to maintain and build a little while burning fat. Seems like a good stack to use from my research so far. Any Input in appreciated
Yeah I think recomp is the best one can shoot for with that combo. Too hard to cut or be super lean when taking MK-677 because of the increased hunger imo. Only input I’d have would be to take it slow, make sure your product is quality, and then record/journal as your study progresses so you have something to reference at the end. Good luck!
This is exactly the kind of detailed review I was looking for. I’m starting this stack next month, it’s going to change everything. Everything.
First off im glad I found your page.
Its very detailed and feels better then the “sponsored” pages.
And also reddit kinda sucks cuz people there cant write anything serious.
So thank you.
My rat is going to start the same cycle as your rat did.
Difference will be that blood will be taken before, mid and end.
Rat is around 98 kg and 185 cm.
It will look like this.
Diet 1900 cal for 2 weeks
Few days before cycle blood will be taken (want my body to adapt to a good mealplan before prep)
Will be regular diet with rice, meat and alot of vegetables.
Cycle: 1-5 weeks
Mealplan: 1900 cal.
10mg MK 2866
End of Week 5:
Blood test again
Cycle: 5-10 weeks
Mealplan 2500 cal (cal balance)
10-20mg MK 2866
After 10 weeks blood will be taken again to see how things went.
I will share you the report so you cant post it or what ever you want later. 🙂
Got any feedback on suppliments that might be good.
Ive read the ones you took but not sure if some of them are needed.
And how IS your upcoming test going?
Email me if you want to keep in contact regarding this mather. 🙂
This sounds great! I like your test layout and the regular blood testing, which I really wish I would have done. In terms of supplements, yeah they’re just supplements. If you’re diet is on point probably not necessary, those were just things I take on a regular basis and wanted to include in the log. Please let me know how your cycle goes. I’m traveling again soon but looking to run a new test this fall, leaning towards LGD-4033 this time, put my rat on full bulk mode 😉
Thank You so much for this post. According to me Proven Peptides is the best and legit place for popular SARMs like RAD140, Ligandrol and Ostarine.
Yeah wherever you look, from bodybuilding forums to Reddit, Proven Peptides seems to come out on top with pretty good reviews in terms of quality, efficacy, as well as pricing/shipping. I recommend them to anyone who asks me about SARMs.
Are these peptides taken orally?
Yes. I’ve read about people injecting but have zero experience with this personally.
Loved the blog. Great reading. Just starting a research project with Ostarine. It is 15mg. caps. I’m starting off with 15mg. a day for 3 weeks then 30mg. for the next 5 weeks. I’m 62 y.o. My rat stands 6’5″ and 184 lbs. Any input would be appreciated.
I think easing into your research is smart, that’s one thing people often overlook. 30mg is a solid dose, so only thing I’d keep in mind is the PCT area. Shit loads of anecdotal logs similar to mine where a “hard-core” PCT like those run after anabolics wasn’t necessary but it’s always worth having a plan just in case. Clomiphone and tamoxifen are the two big stalwarts, although unless your rat has a gf that’s trying to get pregnant these can be a challenge to source for experiments.
I just ordered this exact stack. This was very informative and useful. Planning to log as well. Not sure where the best place to do it would be.
Start a blog man! There are a lot of cheap options out there, I think WordPress.com has a free option. Medium might be a good place. If you are heavy into fitness and want to take blogging seriously I’d look at WordPress.org, which requires hosting but provides the most flexibility long-term. I have a little post about creating fitness WordPress sites here: https://skinnyyoked.com/lifestyle/fitness-website-guide/
Good read mate, appreciate you sharing your knowledge.
Can anyone help me out ?
This is my first time trying SARMs and I’ve done my research and have come up with the stack/cycle.
Wha do you guys think?
Mk2866 & Mk677 for 8 weeks..
(10mg each first week
20mg each next 6 weeks
10mg each final week)
Continue with Mk677 while starting a Pct for the following 4 weeks
Then reset my body and take nothing for the next 4 weeks before starting next cycle.
So in total it’s a 16 cycle from start to finish while giving my body the same amount of time on and off mk2866
I got an Ostarat right now using chemyo
This old rat has a nasty cough from his SARMs & I’m thinking its a reaction to the PEG 400 solvent.
Solvents suck & this is a big disadvantage especially for someone that is sensitized to solvents
Hi Gareth. Never ran any experiments with Chemyo, only Proven Peptides and Enhanced Athlete when they were still selling direct. Are there other better solvents than PEG400? Appreciate any insight you have!
Great post and it’s awesome to get a log of someone actually experiencing the use of the product rather that someone claiming what the science is or is not. I have both and I’m about to start the stack and new diet now that gyms are opening back up. I have done an 8 week cycle on just Ostarine at 15mg/day. It took 4 weeks to see results, but they were noticeable results. I ran it on a cut, but on cuts in the past I’ve never seen that much straight fat come off without losing much muscle. I got defined within 6 weeks and dropped 10-12 pounds after 8. I don’t recall having any negative side effects with that dosage and that duration besides mild headaches the first week. Libido, diet and energy were all fine. I don’t think I had any suppression but you never truly know without blood work.
I think I’ll try to log my experience on the Osta/Mk-677 stack. It’s going to be probably at maintenance calories to see what happens or a slight 250 calorie deficit.
Great info man. I’m using it as part of my research so I appreciate it.
Thanks for the kind words! It does seem that 15mg seems to be the most popular dose for preventing catabolism during cuts/recomps. If you do end up doing some research with an Osta/MK stack please publish it somewhere (a blog, Medium, Reddit whatever) and let me know, always looking for new use cases to read 🙂
Love this log dude – thanks for all the work you put into it.
Did you ever think to run this with E/C? The only negative thing I can think of is both the Osta and E raise blood pressure.
Just wanted to see your thoughts on this – I’m thinking about adding it somewhere in the mix.
Hi Ben. What are you referring to when you say E/C? I only experimented with the Osta and MK-677 compounds, but there are a lot of various logs out there where people sub in different things. I guess it all depends on your goals, timeline and budget. I would say, with anything known to potentially raise blood pressure I’d be pretty cautious. Honestly if I ran this experiment again I’d make sure to do blood tests before and after. (now that I have health insurance again!) Stay safe and share what you learn with the community if you can!
Todd W Burks
Hi. How many MG per day of MK-677 Ibutamoren stacked with Shredded AF do you take?
Everything here was in relation to personal experimentation and isn’t medical or health advice, therefore I cannot advise you what to test with.
If I was to run a 8 week cycle at 25MG a day. Would I need about about 24 total 60MG bottles?
8×7 = 56 days
56 days x 25 mg = 1400 MG
1400 mg / 60 mg bottle = 23.33 bottles
Math makes sense although may want to ease into it instead of jumping straight in at 25mg, so that could reduce the total slightly. (Working up from 5, 10, 15mg etc)
Good blog, thanks for the hard work. I’m on that stack myself, but taking it a little lighter, 15mg Osta 10mg mk677.
Looking over your responses to others it seems you maybe only did 2 cycles in the past 3 years, whereas in your blog it seemed like if you were happy with the results you would continue to do a few cycles yearly.
Is there a reason you didn’t continue?
Also did you have any ‘after’ photos?
I just never got around to it tbh. Moved around the world and started a new career, was focused on maintaining. Now with COVID and gym disruption next time would be next summer. If I do another test will definitely document better with photos, this blog is more me just wanting to publish my journal more than anything else.
Great article and I really enjoyed your review and log of your experience using Osta and Mk677. I’ve been working out heavily for a little over a year and a half, have dropped 40lbs of fat (woohoo!) and am really hoping I can get to attain that lean sculpted physique. I’ve used supplements before (currently using some of the Performance Lab stuff which has been pretty good), and still kind of describe myself as being a “soft” muscle kind of person. Would you recommend your stack to someone like me who works out regularly but still has some ground to cover? Or would you say keep working out and hitting non-SARM supplements and come back when I’ve been working out for a longer period of time? I’m currently sitting at 205lbs and just under the 15% body fat spot. Feeling like I’ve plateaued and need a jump start.
Thanks for your help and I’m new to the blog and greatly enjoying reading up on the articles.
Hey Chris! Thanks for the kind words and congratulations on your journey, 40 pounds is an insane achievement. As for SARMs, or any performance enhancer, the general consensus among elite bodybuilders seems to be A) no point in using them unless you compete and/or B) if you do use them, only do it to break genetic plateaus. For my experiment I fell into category B because I don’t compete and I’d been lifting for quite a few years by that point, seemingly at my genetic limit, although others have pointed out that might not have been the case and they could be correct. Knowing when you’ve hit your genetic limit is a tough thing to be real confident about.
If I had to guess, I’d say you’ve probably not reached your max potential after 1.5 years. That’s a good amount of time but from everything I’ve read it usually takes non-competitive/non-professionally coached bodybuilders 4-6 years to fully optimize both their training and diet, and I’m talking nitty gritty here, very precise workout cycles, jedi-level mind-muscle connection, and at least a couple of years of solid work within minimal lean weight gains before you’d be genetically maxed out.
That said 205 at 15% ain’t bad, especially if you’re on the taller side.
Ultimately only you can decide. I haven’t done a follow up experiment since my original log because I’ve been pretty happy with my natural conditioning. COVID leaned me out huge when gyms closed and I adjusted my workout/diet and now have the body fat % I’ve struggled so long to obtain.
Thanks for the info Erik! I’m working with a professional PT who has bodybuilding experience, but I think I decided not to go the SARM route. I have some leaning out to do and work to do before I’d even think of something like that. I appreciate the advice and the well wishes! Thanks for all the info!
Thanks a lot for this, I wanted to try this stack and based on your well-documented experience have placed an order. My main criteria for judging success will be whether I plateau as usual or not whilst on these. I’ll be interested to see if MK-677 can increase my already limitless appetite…
Thanks for the kind words. I don’t know if “well documented” is fair, it was more of just a personal test that I journaled and ended up publishing. For more in depth documentation I’d check out Coach Trevor and the Enhanced Athlete team as well as guys like Derek from More Plates More Dates. They’re on a whole other level from me.
But I can say, I have weighed by heaviest when I was experimenting with MK-677 🙂
any idea if osta effects natty test (shut down ) thanks mate
I didn’t do bloods so I can’t say. Derek from More Plates More Dates is probably one of the most experienced smartest SARMs experts out there and he says it’ll put a dent in your natural test. That said, I didn’t notice any of the obvious symptoms when I ran my mini cycle, although my doses were probably lower than many people choose to run. Safest thing to do is get before bloods, then if you choose to experiment, start at very low quantities and test at milestones along the way.
any feedback on the osta shutting you down mate ..i am about to order thia combo after coming off the juice ..trying for baby so juice is a no no ..i need something that wont effect my balls ..cheers for any feedback
hi mate bit of an old post but a very interesting read ,
ive been using anabolocs for years im aged 47 now
came off juice about 8 mnths ago and feel like shit
had my bloodwrk done test was low as fk ..shit down blasted some hcg large doses and clomid and got it back to nml ..dying to get back on the test and tren but my gf wants one more child wich fks the idea of gear out the window for now..been trying mnths but still no baba
my question is this ..im considering mk 677 and some other sarm that wnt suppress my natty test ..just something for that extra kick with the mk ..wich sarm wudnt shut me down as im having mixed feeback that osta dont shit you off ..yet people i know have used it have noticed reduced libido and loss of test feeling ..cheers for any feedback .
Happy for you man, sounds like you’re life is cooking along at full steam! I didn’t do bloods with my mk-677/ostarine cycle but I don’t remember any serious sides, and felt “normal” pretty much through the entirety of the experiment. I did note slightly reduced libido but I never went full monk if you catch my drift. I think it’s pretty conclusive that Ostarine will reduce test levels, but from everything I’ve seen, not nearly on the same scale as some of the more hardcore SARMs (LGD/YK-11 etc).
Thank you for the insightful documentation of your journey. Learned alot!
May I know how long is your PCT cycle and do you only take RSP T Prime during PCT?
It was two weeks I believed and yeah, just RSP T Prime (in addition to regular multivitamins, fish oils, etc). I wasn’t doing any blood work so I’m not sure how appropriate this amateur PCT was, but Iit seemed to work for me.