First, off the bat, these are research compounds and are not to be used for human consumption.
This website does not encourage or promote anyone use these compounds for anything other than research purposes.
All mentions in the below experiment pertain to a lab rat. From henceforth all personal pronouns such as “I” or “my” are officially referring to my lab rat and his “assumed perspective” on the effects of MK2866 and MK677.
After a solid 3 weeks of solid research on the entire world of SARMS, I decided it was probably one of the most cost effective ways to potentially up my anabolic gains with the absolute minimal amount of risk.
Just to answer the most commonly asked question of them all off the bat:
Q: Where is the most reliable place to buy Ostarine/Enobosarm (MK-2866) and Ibutamoren (Mk-677)?
A: Swiss Chems (lab tested, solid online reputation, solid customer support, solid pricing)
Also, if you want to skip the day-to-day user log and cut straight to the rest of the FAQs where I summarize what I learned from my research you can jump directly to that section clicking here.
Experiment Subject Background Details
For a little background, I have been training hard and 100% natty for the last 5 years straight, with 3 of those years being a morning/evening schedule working around a full-time job and 2 of those years being solid daily workouts while working from home.
I am 6’2 and weight ranges from 180-200 depending on the season. Since at the time of writing this it is fall, my body weight is closer to 180-185 coming off the lean tank top and short-shorts summer season of flaunting gains.
I train usually 5-6 days a week, a traditional “bro” split of push (chest, shoulders), pull (back) and legs.
In between these three rotations I mix in dedicated “supplemental” days.. perhaps a pure shoulder and arm day, perhaps a “forearm/neck/calves” day, essentially will just mix in days to focus on glaring weaknesses that seem to be lagging despite hitting major muscle groups with compound lifts on the press/pull/leg days.
As far as diet, I am not the strictest, I try to be flexible, mix in the intermittent fasting, avoid overly processed foods, sugars, etc.
For supplementation I’ve tried pretty much everything, from powdered “beef” protein (see original review here) to pricey new supplements like Muscletech’s Clear Muscle, a free-acid form of HMB (see original review of that here).
After years of trial and error and many wasted dollars, my regular supplementation consists of:
A solid pre-workout with transparent labeling. Currently using GAT Nitraflex. Before that was the shotgun 4-Guage preworkout, which is more well-rounded than Nitraflex, more similar to Betancourt’s B-Nox Androrush. You should be good to go with just about any transparently labelled and efficaciously dosed PWO.
Ordered a bunch of pump-enhancer PEScience Prolific and High Volume too, just to have a variety of stimulants and pump-enhancers on hand as to always maintain high-intensity workouts.
Pre-workouts help me get in the zone and combined with some solid tunes definitely increase the intensity of my workouts. Intensity=volume=hypertrophy=growth. Need the intensity to maximize the effects of the selective androgen receptor modulator compounds.
Intra-Workout Hydration + Luceine
Xtend BCAAs intra workout. I only started doing this a year ago, as I was happy getting my branch chains via whole food and protein shakes.
However, as years have worn on, my body has adapted and my workouts can now sometimes run 2+ hours, depending on the body group.
I have found BCAA supplementation, specifically Xtends with included electrolytes, really helps me power through long workouts without worrying about drastic catabolism.
Not necessary but again, I’m looking to hit this little recomp with everything I have, so no expenses are being spared.
Protein shakes. I’ve tried literally every brand of protein powder, usually defaulting to Optimum Nutrition’s Gold Standard as it is always readily available in 10lb bags and tastes inoffensive.
In the last year I’ve tried switching to a casein/whey blend. There have been studies showing protein synthesis tails out a bit after a workout, and where isolates and hyper-processed whey’s spike your system, they quickly digest out, leaving your body wanting. Casein digests slowly and drips aminos over a longer period of time.
For this reason I mix my shakes approximately 60/40 whey/casein. Protein supplementation is to maximize the actual muscle building process that’s kickstarted with the actual exercise and SARM interaction with androgen receptors.
Every few months I may take a break from the heavy dairy as it can easily reap havoc on my intestines if I’m not careful enough to get sufficient quantities of fiber in my meal plan. Vegan proteins usually have higher levels of fiber and are easier on the gut and make a good 1-month texture/flavor break from the whey as well seemingly giving my digestive system a break from the liquid mud production..
Diet While Undertaking Research
Living largely in Asia, my diet can sometimes be lacking in diversity, particularly when fresh fruits and vegetables are taken into account.
Chinese cuisine is pretty much entirely white rise and oily scrapes of meat, with the occasional worthless helping of boiled cabbage or other low-nutrient “green”. For this reason I supplement with a sport-designed multivitamin daily like Optimum Nutrition’s Opti-men.
I also buy the daily multi’s from Costco when I have the opportunity. On top of the multi I take a glucosamine/MSM supplement to help protect joints, as according to research (Examine) this supplement wont’ repair joints but have been shown to protect against damage.
I am all about preventative health. Finally, on top of the multi and glucosamine I always take a fish oil high in DHA. Fish oil is probably one of the most researched and healthy supplements, and it is cheap, so it’s always there.
My Reasons for Testing SARMS
As mentioned in the introduction, I have been lifting solid for about 5 years. I am happy with my physique; I have enough muscle mass to put me above probably 80-90% of “average” men on the street.
I have decent sized arms, fair traps, decent sized pecs, larger than average legs etc. On good days abs are decently visible, but due to a beer addiction, never really “cut” out of my stomach.
I feel my supplementation and diet is as optimal as it is going to get given current life constraints, including on the geographic location of my residence as well as my income.
Essentially, I feel I’ve gotten just about as far as I can naturally with just hard work and diet.
SARMS, or “Selective Androgen Receptor Modulators” seem to the be logical next step in crossing the “true natty” barrier into something a little more biologically engineered.
What are SARMS?
SARMs are engineered androgen receptor antagonists that help biologically increase muscle building by attaching directly to androgen receptors and causing them to increase muscle building, similar to how testosterone works but unlike testosterone that floods the entire body with hormone, SARMs have been engineered in laboratories to “selectively” target the androgen receptors (same ones stimulated by testosterone carpet bombing) without impacting other organs, which traditional test injections fail to do.
I like to think of it as real man’s “half natty”. The true definition of half-natty is a “natty” that looks “unnatural” because of angle/lighting/perfect instagram filter selection plus maybe having perfect carb timing/pump enhancement coursing through their veins.
However, for the purpose of this experiment and this blog in general, half-natty in this context will mean moderate supplementation with compounds outside of protein/creatine/etc but that are not injectable and which are more “moderate” in their ability to put on mass as well as their overall side effects.
My objective with SARMs is to achieve that excellent perfect light/angle/filter look but without the need for all those pre-requisites to be on point.
I want to look half-natty even with shitty lighting, noob angles/poses and with no instagram filters.
The key to achieving this modest goal I believe is strategic implementation of training and selective androgen receptor modulator use.
The key word here is “selective” in how these compounds work, targeting just muscle growth and bone/joint repair/health as apposed to carpet-bombing your entire system the way anabolic steroids do.
Bombing is a great analogy, showing how devastating carpet bombing (steroids) can be when collateral damage is taken into account.
SARMs on the other hand are more like much smaller, more tactical precision strike missiles, or at least this is how they are most commonly described.
Sure, a solid stack of steroidal compounds will most definitely yield more “impressive” results faster, but impressive is a relative term.
Again, my goal is not to be the next Ronnie Coleman; my goal is to just take my physique one step higher.
My optimal physique would be one that just borders on the “is he natty or not” territory…a look that blurs the line between what is possible with exceptional genetics (which I do not have) and gearing up.
So there you have it, the full “rat” history, ectomorphic body-type, training style, existing supplementation, everything. These factors will all remain constant during my SARM experiment.
The only change will be diet, as I will be spending time in both Asia as well as the U.S. My diet in the U.S is usually more whole-food based, sourcing much more protein from big chunks of meat, vs. Asia, where protein has to come more from shakes.
Which SARMs Brand Did I Use?
When working with research chemicals doing due diligence is of utmost importance because as SARMs are not FDA approved for human consumption, you don’t have the nanny state looking out for you in terms of safety, efficacy, purity etc.
I spent over a month researching different SARMs on the market and all the SARMs brands as well. I read every published user log I could find, many of which were not very detailed or cut off abruptly, which is a big reason why I wanted to record my own “master log”.
In all of my research one company stood out as being
A) the most popular and
B) the most transparent in terms of company executives using their own products. Popularity is obviously not a scientific measuring stick, but it does help reenforce a small sense of relative safety.
The more people that use “Brand A” for example the more opportunity for issues to be publicized.
The brand I chose to go with was Enhanced Athlete.
As mentioned, they are quite popular and many of the decent user logs published used their research chemicals.
They are also quite active on social media where they are very blunt and open about their own SARM research and the research of other Youtube/Instagram personalities.
So, in terms of safety and reliability I went with the pack and ordered both my MK-677 and MK-2866 from Enhanced Athlete.
*Updated January 2019 : Better SARM Source Recommendation
I previously stated that I used EA SARMs for this study. However, since publishing I’ve had a lot of people ask me if I still recommend them or if there were other vendors that were superior. Enhanced Athlete has been having serious issues delivering orders, not to mention some of their most popular compounds like Ostarine are regularly out of stock.
Well, I believe I have found the holy grail of SARMs sellers. The company is called Swiss Chems.
Swiss Chems Review
Swiss Chems research chemicals are THE best SARMs provider at the moment. I’m over the constant “out of stock” issues with EA as well as all the people claiming to not receive their orders.
I needed to find a better SARM provider and I definitely found that in Swiss Chems.
The reasons Swiss Chems are superior are as follows:
They are the only widely available U.S-made (Swiss developed) SARM supplier.
The single most argument fitness experts have AGAINST using SARMs is that you don’t know what you are getting because 99% of SARMs on the market today are coming from sketchy labs in China.
Swiss Chems uses American made SARMs, which means they have much more control over quality assurance than companies placing orders from random Chinese chem labs halfway around the world.
2. Consistent, Independent Quality Testing
They do 3rd party testing on every batch. Again, for every batch produced Swiss Chems goes the extra step of having the compound 3rd party tested for purity.
These tests are all made public for buyers to view. Nobody that I have found is doing anything like this at the moment.
3. Price & Variety
Swiss Chems not only is extremely price competitive, they also regularly have sales, always have compounds in stock, and offer more selection in terms of volume per unit.
Many other vendors offer limited dosing, meaning you have to order either way more than you need or be happy with a super short cycle because the volume of your original order is so low.
Swiss Chems offers Ostarine for example in 15ml, 30ml and huge 60ml bottles, meaning you can order precisely how much you need for your cycle.
When it comes to “Swiss Chems vs. Enhanced Athlete” or “Swiss Chems. iSARMS” or even “Swiss Chems vs. IRC.bio”, I believe Proven Peptides comes out on top because of their balance of quality, reliability, affordability and bottle size options.
***Updated November 2020: Proven Peptides was a reliable source too but has recently shut down. Swiss Chems is still up and running and so is IRC.bio which both make quality product****
Thus, if you are looking to do your own testing, I recommend you check out Swiss Chems. They have a stellar reputation with hard-core bio-hackers on Reddit as well as online bodybuilding communities.
What Exactly Is Being Tested?
For my first foray into the world of SARMS I’ve decided to go with MK-2866, also known as Ostarine, the most clinically trialed of the popular SARMs available for ordering online for research purposes.
Stack Component #1: Ostarine
This compound seems to be one of the safest. Over weeks of pouring over forums, blogs, and medical studies it seems to be the freest of adverse side effects.
Another attractive component of Ostarine its purported claims to help increase bone density and heal injuries.
I’ve broken multiple bones over my life and after 5 years of training natty and training HARD, I have my fair share of lingering issues (patellar tendinitis, left wrist pain, occasional left anterior shoulder/collar bone pain) and the idea of taking something to not only help build muscle but simultaneously strengthen bones and tendons sounds like an absolute miracle.
Safety is another huge factor. Unlike some other SARMs whose research has been dropped by major pharmaceuticals after negative side effects, like S-4, Ostarine is still being researched by Merck, one of the biggest “legit” pharma companies in the world.
They’ve completed full Phase I and Phase II clinical trials with Ostarine, which are the two biggest, and proceeding with Phase III, which is the last one (requiring testing over a loooong period of time with adverse demographics) before being approved for sale. You can bet your ass Ostarine will become a prescription drug within the decade.
So if billion dollar drug companies are looking to sell a compound you can bet your ass it is legit and relatively safe.
I have nothing against other SARMS, and if everything goes will with Ostarine may experiment with some more potent compounds.
For the time being though, just to get my feet wet, we will go with Ostarine. I recommend Swiss Chems MK-2866 as it is the most affordable, it is American made and all batches undergo 3rd party testing.
If you have some time on your hands it wouldn’t hurt to go through and check out the studies themselves:
Stack Component #2: Ibutamoren/MK-677
On top of that I am adding MK-677, also known as ibutamoren which while sold and grouped with SARMs is not actually a “selective androgen receptor modulator”, it is instead a “secretagogue”, meaning it encourages more secretion, in this case of your pituitary gland to release more growth hormone.
There is an astounding amount of anecdotal evidence online of the GH release stimulated by MK-677 or “Ibutamoren” to be comparable to that of medium grade growth hormone peptides (the injectibles used by IFBB pro type bodybuilders).
Thing is, real GH that you inject is expensive as all hell, thousands of dollars. MK-677 on the other-hand can be had for 1/10th the price or less.
Growth hormone is amazing. It does exactly what it is named; it helps your body grow. So it can help heal injuries, help build NEW muscle (whereas other gains are simply the increasing of existing muscle cell size, GH can help you actually create brand new muscle cells).
Users report better sleep, fat loss, muscle gain, even improved skin and faster growing nails and hair.
GH is a natural thing; our bodies produce a ton of it when we are young through puberty, i.e., when we are growing like weeds. As we age we produce less, and thus our bodies begin the depressing decline into slowly falling apart until we die.
Ibutamoren helps stimulate our own pituitary glands to produce more GH than it normally does.
For men, we usually just “pulse” out GH a few times at night when we get really good, really deep sleep and that’s it. Take into account all the nights you don’t get quality sleep and you can imagine how much GH you’re missing out on.
MK677 helps you pulse out GH throughout the day, at higher volumes, resulting in a large net increase in growth factors like IGF-1. This shit is directly responsible for healing, growing, and getting bigger.
MK677 has been studied extensively, just like Ostarine, and has been given to patients for up to a whole year straight without any significant adverse effects reported.
Again, for a solid, reliable and SAFE source of Nutrabol (branded name for MK-677) I would recommend Swiss Chems because of their transparency and competitive pricing. You can check their pricing here.
Many bodybuilders combine anabolic compounds with growth hormone to maximize training results.
Instead of spending tons of cash on expensive and risky steroids with injectable growth hormone, the combination of Ostarine and Ibutamoren together seem to be a satisfactory alternative.
Importance of a Long-Term, Safe, & Repeatable Cycle
Now Ostarine and MK677 are not as powerful as real steroids, however they are far more potent than any other natty solution on the market, and since this experimenter isn’t looking to compete at Olympia any time soon, this “strength” compromise for safety is one I am very happy to accept, especially when cost is taken into account.
Safety is key here with this cycle. I’ve worked very hard over years to build a physique to be proud of and do not want to fuck it all up by destroying a healthy endocrine system that has already proven itself to produce natty results to be proud of.
There are endless list of various experimental compounds available for purchase online, in addition to the obvious black-market steroids and other prohormones available via alternative channels.
Ostarine and Ibuatmoren were chosen for a stack because they seem to be the two most researched (including long-term clinical trials) compounds.
Suppression Planning and PCT Prep
One big factor to be taken into account is testosterone suppression. Steroids are dangerous in one way simply because they can cause complete shutdown of natural testosterone production.
This means when you stop injecting you are screwed without a proper “post-cycle therapy” or PCT. PCTs can include all kinds of different chemicals.
Steroid users will use aromatase inhibitors on cycle to prevent gyno and SERMs like Clomid and Novladex for PCT to help keep estrogen levels in check and encourage their own natural production of testosterone to resume.
PCT in itself doesn’t scare me; it’s the idea of going through all of it without proper blood work. Having your blood tested provides a clear benchmark.
You know where you are naturally and where you are on cycle and where you are after. You can compare these numbers and adjust PCT to get back to normal levels.
Given current constraints I am unable to do blood work, meaning everything I do will be based off “feel” alone. For this reason alone I am hesitant to try more hardcore compounds.
*Post-cycle Update* In retrospect I really should have had my hormone levels checked. First, it’s just good to know where you stand on the spectrum. If you are naturally on the lower end then trying things like SARMs may pose more risk and more serious options like TRT might be more prudent.
When I conduct future tests I will probably invest in some Nolvadex or Clomid just in case I have any sides as I would like to go higher doses and longer for my next cycle. Swiss Chems has both of them so sourcing shouldn’t be a problem.
Likewise, for the sake of safety, even though I “felt” fine afterwards it would be doubly reassuring to have actual numbers to look at to confirm this. I did some investigating and there are a whole bunch of DIY hormone test kits for men that you can get on Amazon which is probably what I’ll look into buying if I test again or test with something more suppressive like Ligandrol.
All of my research seems to indicate that SARMs are very mildly suppressive. Most reported cases of suppression occur with users dosing well over 25mg/daily, usually 30-50mg.
Suppression also seems more common in longer cycles, those exceeding 8 weeks in length.
For this experiment I will only be running 20mg (unless things go fantastic, in which case it could be upped to 25/30mg later on) and I will only be running a 6-8 week cycle tops.
I’d rather run multiple shorter cycles than one huge one that causes suppression.
Not having access to clomid and nolvadex (these are prescription) I can’t risk being fucked with an impaired endocrine system and no resource of action except waling into a doctors office like a retard.
So 20mg daily, 6-8 weeks tops is the plan. I am very in-tune with my body and if things go south will adjust.
I’ve also acquired some potent NOW Super Antioxidant pills containing a shit-ton of natural estrogen regulating herbs to take while on cycle to both just inject my system with a ton of healthy shit as well as hopefully keep estrogen in check.
I’ve also picked up a big bottle of RSP’s Prime T testosterone support. These seem to be the beefiest natural T booster on the market, containing all the good shit guys prescribe for SARMs PCT including DAA and DIM.
DAA is usually used even with SERM PCTs as it’s a potent and cheap testosterone kickstarter. Likewise, DIM is also a proven OTC aromatase inhibitor.
RSP doses both these and more ABOVE (although not grossly) the recommended effective doses, unlike most other test boosters out there. Therefore RSP was my mini-PCT/test-igniter of choice for this particular study.
I will take the antioxidants with my multivitamin/fish oil/glucosamine “maintenance” stack daily. 20MG Ostarine in the AM and 20MG MK677 in the PM. Will keep the RSP Prime T for PCT.
Will phase the cycle in at 10mg/daily for first week, then upping to full 20mg/daily dose for majority of cycle.
For the last week I will drop both back down to 10mg/daily for the last week and start phasing in the Prime T test booster at the same time to hopefully kickstart natural T production again should I be suppressed in any way.
Being a very cautious rat (that is how rats stay alive!), I am starting each compound at a small 10mg dose to see how my body reacts.
I will begin the MK677 first, and then work Ostarine in later. I want to phase them so I can measure the feeling of each separately.
After a week of 10mg/daily for each compound I will up each to 20mg/day, as this seems to be the sweetest spot in terms of efficacy and safety.
There are guys taking up to 50mg/day but this is when side effects like moderate testosterone suppression, headaches and difficulty sleeping start arising.
Seeing as I’m looking to both heal and rebuild, more moderate results from the 20mg dosing is perfectly acceptable.
I am not looking to become a mass monster from this stack, I am more looking to recomposition a bit..remove a bit of fat from the mid section, heal nagging issues and add a few pounds of solid, maintainable muscle in the process.
As touched upon the Ostarine will be taken in the AM and MK677 will be taken in the PM, as many users report lethargy and I prefer to be productive during the daytime.
Full Cycle User Log
Below is full documentation of the experiment. Everything here is just to provide other lab rats with a bit of background, daily impact, feeling, progress, side effects, gains, etc.
Started with 10mg MK677 90 minutes before bed. This seems to be a sweet spot where by the time you go to sleep the stuff is really kicking in and you can just pass the fuck out.
MK677 is supposed to increase appetite and people who take it in the morning, besides reporting lethargy throughout the day, say they are hungry as hell, and since I don’t want to screw my diet up completely, figure taking it and being hungry in my sleep will be smarter.
Sure enough, I passed the fuck out. In the morning I had no recollection of “drifting” slowly off to sleep like I normally do, I simply remember getting in bed, turning the light off, closing my eyes and then nothing. I had very intense dreams. Woke up super refreshed the next morning.
Everything else seems good, no bloat, no tingling in my limbs, no discomfort, just some very quality sleep.
Big breakfast, took my “health” supplements (multi vitamin/antioxidants/glucosamine/fish oil) along with my first 10mg of Ostarine.
Had some coffee, did some work, took some PEScience Prolific preworkout and went to the gym. Workout seemed exactly the same as normal in terms of intensity, energy and pump.
Took another 10mg of MK677 90 minutes before bed again. Again just passed the fuck out. So far so good.. I could see using MK677 simply as a sleep aid in the future as it seems as effective if not more effective than a double dose of Nyquil or other cold sleep aid.
Ostarine morning, 10MG. Preworkout, gym, had a great pump…impossible to delineate from PEscience High Volume pump supplement or Ostarine, although haven’t read anywhere that Osta is a pump-inducer so I’ll attribute it to the PEScience. High Volume.. bookmarking this for future use, one of the best pumps I’ve had in a while.
Had a huge dinner and met a couple friends. Had two pints of Guinness late. Contemplating skipping the MK677, although given it stays in you for 24 hours, figured already had some in me, and 10mg is such a small dose, there probably wasn’t much danger.
I know drinking on cycle is stupid. These two beers were drank slowly and couldn’t be avoided as I was seeing some friends I haven’t seen in years.
Will stick with the low 10mg dose for the next few days as I have another good friend getting married and will be in the wedding. This will ultimately result in consuming a bit more alcohol than I’d like on at least one more occasion.
Hoping low doses of compounds will keep them in my system so after the wedding I can up to 20/mg and immediately begin crushing it.
Nothing reported officially in regards to alcohol and SAMRS or secretagogues. Neither compound is hepatoxic, so the liver should be perfectly fine to deal with the drinks like it normally does.
Still, with research compounds, it’s best not to fuck about and of course, booze is a big hamper on gains, for natty and enhanced lifters alike.
10MG osta morning after breakfast. Slight headache. Not sure if from the two pints night prior with the MK677 or just the Ostarine itself as other user logs have reported headaches in the first week as well.
Been hitting it hard in the gym and will go light today, probably just some cardio and a bit of calve work.
Sleep has still been great; really love just passing out and getting deep sleep. Usually don’t have problems falling asleep but am a relatively light sleeper. MK677 seems to solve this problem.
Also been pooping quite a bit earlier than usual. I’m usually quite regular; drop a deuce only after breakfast and the first cup of coffee. Yesterday and today had to poop as soon as I woke up. Probably coincidental but logging it regardless.
Same 10/10 split, no alcohol and no headache. Given two previous times consuming moderate (two pints) amounts also corresponded with mild headaches I’m confident in assuming some correlation.
Correlation not causation, as I could very well have been dehydrated and maybe Ostarine or MK677 exacerbates that.
Good workouts, plowing through without much fatigue, although working out in a properly air conditioned space (as opposed to stifling Asia) is a bit weird as even flat out I struggle to break a sweat, which is weird.
Upped the Ostarine to 20mg today, taken around noon, an hour or so before working out. Had a great workout.
Other factors included PEScience Prolific pre, an Xtends BCAA + PEScience High Volume intra-workout and of course an obligatory post-workout casein/whey blend protein shake. Feeling great. 10mg MK-677 90 minutes before bed.
Same 20mg Ostarine as the previous day before workout, had a FANTASTIC workout, although it was shoulders+arms and well, those are always pretty glorious.
Upped the MK-677 before bed to 20mg as well as it seems this is the most commonly dosed amount. However falling asleep was actually quite difficult and I felt like I could feel my pulse in my temples.
Don’t own a blood pressure tool so just waited it out. Crap sleep. Feel maybe too big of a jump for me. Going back to 10mg as the sleep quality alone makes it much more preferable.
Read a study about MK-677, one set of subjects received 10MG while another received a 50mg.
The GH levels both looked pretty jacked up, with the 50mg dosage being higher naturally, but not by that much, making me think perhaps 10mg ED over a loooong period of time (6+ months) might be the way to go. (Study: https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/82/10/3455/2823475/Oral-Administration-of-Growth-Hormone-GH-Releasing)
The discrepancy here between amounts of GH and IGF-1 measured between the 10mg and 50mg dosages were noticeable, although the 50mg returns were not 5X the 10mg, making it seem like this amount is overkill.
Still there are other studies showing that while both low and high dose produce similar levels of GH, the higher dose resulted in specifically more IGF-1, the muscle-building agent we’re looking for.
The difference isn’t that much, with mean increase for 10mg at +19% and mean increase for 50mg (5 times the amount) at +29%.
In this same study the serum IGF binding protein-3 increase for 10mg was 1.7 micrograms vs. 50mg at 2.2 micrograms. Is this .5 increase at 5 times the amount mean a bump from 10mg to 25mg (half the study’s 50mg) worth it?
High GH is still beneficial, for healing, joint repair, skin benefits etc. IGF-1 is still increased with 10mg, just not quite to higher 50mg.
Some recommend 25mg a good happy medium, although if it ruins your sleep then you have to weigh that cost vs. pro.
Personally, not happy if I’m not sleeping so back to 10mg. Will give 20mg another couple of shots, maybe try in the daytime, although people report more lethargy when taking in the AM so this may present a whole new set of problems.
We’ll see where I ultimately end up. My original idea combining the MK-677 with Ostarine was to support muscle development, not specifically create it like bodybuilders taking large amounts of GH do.
Essentially I am training very hard. 1.5-3 hour sessions depending on muscle group. Diet, supplementation, rest all on point. Leaning mostly on anabolic nature of Ostarine for lean gains, thinking the MK-677 can just help “glue” these gains together by helping with recovery and rebuilding during rest/off time.
This is all conjecture, but the general aim. Sharing to give you an insight into why combing Osta with MK and why I’m choosing dosages that I am.
Side note, up a bit in weight, from about 190 to 196. Not particularly vascular and drinking tons of water. Maybe had a huge shit in me too, idk. Still happy to see weight go up as long as my abdominal definition remains unchanged.
20mg MK-677 with breakfast consisting of 4 slices of cinnamon raison toast with butter, full glass of cashew milk. After this sipped on one cup of coffee while working. Did not notice the MK-677 in my system at all, and did not experience any lethargy as the day wore on.
Think I will continue to does in the AM, contrary to many reports of people preferring PM dosing. Try both to see what works best with your body and routine.
Pretty happy taking Ostarine in the afternoon, either with lunch, or with a small carb source before working out. Did chest/shoulders, had great pump, look visibly bigger afterwards, probably GH water retention.
Still taking my usual multivitamin, glucosamine/msm, fish oil in the AM. Have also been taking Now Super Antioxidants pills since being on this SARMs cycle as they contain some of the best natural aromatase inhibitors with actual research. So far so good, no bitch titties, no bad feelings at all actually.. just great workout sessions.
20mg MK-677 AM, 20mg Osta lunch. Was planning an off day but been at my desk all day, getting a little stir crazy. Considering dirty leg night session after dinner.. we will see.
Still feeling great, still no real side effects, none of the tingly sensations in limbs as often reported by MK users. Appetite too has seemed to return more to normal. Can’t tell if skin is improving so probably not yet.
No side effects from the Osta either, same libido, same energy, same nut size, no mood changes or anything. Only noticeable difference seems to be consistently awesome gym pumps.
Nothing really out of the ordinary to report, still having wonderful workouts. Part of it is definitely the PEScience Prolific, doesn’t hit you all jittery with a ton of caffeine like so man PWOs, instead sneaks in and before long you’re 20 hours in and still busting out 18/16/14/12 sets. Great stuff.
Pumps are always sick. People have reported better pumps with just MK-677 alone, although my rat is dosing that in the morning with breakfast and not working out until later in the day, not sure if still causing, or if some combination with Ostarine.
DOMS have decreased significantly as well. Barely feel anything in chest/back after their respective days.
Even after a long hamstring/glute/calf day, which usually cause the most brutal, lasting DOMS didn’t feel much. This equates to increased training frequency, as I don’t feel limited at all after what would normally be a brutal workout.
No more headaches, I’ve determined that was part of some type of acclimation period. Have had days where I’ve had 2-3 drinks and haven’t had any issue. Obviously trying to keep it to a minimum here.
So, still going 20mg MK-677 in the AM, which is not resulting in any lethargy now, and 20mg Ostarine an hour or so before working out.
Starting to see visible changes in the mirror. People say Osta doesn’t really get going until week 4 or so, however I think this is a misnomer, in fact Osta starts working right away, it’s just that gains come slowly and people only “notice” changes after they’ve accumulated over 4 weeks or so.
Seeing more veins too. They aren’t popping out in a freakish way, but even the day after a workout, can just see big thick green veins in places I hadn’t really notices before, including pecs and anterior deltoids. Bigger veins=more blood, so that’s cool.
Updating in blocks now as the dose has been the same for quite a while and been busy in the gym putting in the work to see the most optimal gains.
Current weight is up to 205, give or take a large dump. Put on a little water, some fat, been in mini-bulk mode.
Didn’t really set out to go this way, but the MK really helps the appetite, and helps recovery, so big long days in the gym result in big heavy meals before and after.
What else… had a night where I went a little deep on some good high percentage alcohol stouts, didn’t die, so doesn’t seem to be any serious problems with booze and either MK-677 or Ostarine.
Still, just because you can’t see it doesn’t mean it is harmless, not to mention drinking doesn’t help the gains, so obviously best to avoid, which I am regularly, that was just an indulgence/cheat night.
MK-677 is interesting.. can definitely feel it working. The lethargy is weird, it’s not like straight up drowsiness but more of a, I just want to lay down a bit and watch South Park. Not horrible, but not great for productivity.
Growth Hormone is an amazing thing for health, so I’m pumped to be on it, but kind of miss the more productive, focused working mornings without.
Will be traveling for a week coming up, hotel has a gym but not nearly as well equipped as what a bodybuilder needs.
So to prepare I have been putting in 200% the last week and a half, maximizing the intensity of my workouts and will use the travel week as an opportunity to “de-load”.
Will combine a whole bunch of lighter weight, high rep, full body kind of stuff with cardio next week and then hit it hard when I return for another week or two.
Looking right now like this cycle will only be 6 weeks or so. Many recommend 8 weeks for max results, but with travel and uh, life, that won’t be possible this time.
Still, plan on re-ordering both, running a 2nd cycle in a few months. What’s better, one long cycle or two medium length cycles? Hard to say.
Oh, been taking RSP Prime T testosterone booster a couple days a week. Idea being I just want to have something stimulate my natural T production to hopefully keep it from just spiraling out of control. I think of these t booster days as “speed bumps” in my suppression. Yeah, complete broscience, I know.
Otherwise everything all good. Long intense workouts, good recovery, no headaches or trouble sleeping, occasional numbness in limbs, but nothing scary or alarming.
Finally finished my supply of Ostarine. Had a week spent traveling visiting family, so took it as a solid de-load, used the gym hotel to do some full body light workouts.
No adverse side effects, still great workouts, great pumps, weight slowly increasing yet.
Libido seems down a bit. Not completely gone, but noticeably down.
Weighed in before Thanksgiving dinner at 203.8 pounds. This is up considerably from the 185lb start weight, although I would not attribute it all to the SARMS.
First, my diet has completely changed, from a very lean Asian diet with minimal dairy to a dairy-saturated heavy on the meat and carbs Midwest diet. This has always resulted in more gains when back, although not quite the 18 pounds I’ve put on over the last month and a half.
The MK-677 was definitely a big contributor, I know I’m holding more water, but look big and can still make out 4 squares of my abs so don’t feel like a fat fuck.
MK-677 seems like a miracle chemical for hard gainers looking to bulk and who have struggled in the past as it gives you the appetite of a lumberjack.
Conclusion and Future Plans
Now that I’ve exhausted the Ostarine I’m entering a light PCT consisting of daily RSP Prime T, which contains studied dosages of clutch anti-estrogen and natty test support ingredients like DIM, DAA and Fungreek.
I’ll continue MK-677 with the Prime T during the PCT. Will run for a month, tapering at the end.
Will go a few more months and then try another cycle, this time with a much leaner Asian diet, as I’m curious how these two compounds will work at a neutral calorie intake, or in a deficit.
I know, many will say, why not just do one long cycle without the gap. Honestly, if I didn’t have to fly around the world, meet with people, change diet and lifestyle so much these few months I probably would.
If I went for 8+, maybe 10 weeks I’d also want to have a legit SERM on hand like Clomid or Nolvadex just to be safe. By breaking this down into two 7-week cycles, hopefully by the end I can obtain similar, if not more, amounts of muscle if going straight for 10 weeks. (14 weeks in two cycles vs. 8-10 weeks in one long cycle).
Maybe this is idiotic, I don’t claim to be a SARM scientist… just doing some experimentation.
That’s about it. Overall quite happy.. you read so much sketchy stuff on the interwebs.. guys named “Chadmeister69” on random forums saying all SARMs will “shut you down bro”, or people claiming all kinds of crazy sides.
Sure, no doubt some people probably have adverse side effects. Some people die if they eat peanuts, or get stung by bees.. hell, A LOT of people have these reactions, so there are bound to be some who react negatively to SARMs, this is just population statistics.
For example, if you are cursed and “skinny fat” and always kind of had bitch tits, if you take a bunch of SARM’s maaaaybe you’ll flair your tits up. But this type of person shouldn’t be fucking with SARMs in the first place.
First they need to see a doctor and get their tits sorted out with a SERM or something. Then they need to lift to within 80-90% of their genetic potential, AND THEN they should look at how SARMs can help them get to the next level.
Personally I found the whole process completely enjoyable and feel it provided a solid ROI. Little increased acne, feeling like I had higher blood pressure in the beginning, numb/tingly limbs, and very slightly reduced libido were the only notable sides for me and they didn’t disturb my daily living whatsoever.
If you’re looking to run your own test and want a reliable vendor for your compounds, then I highly recommend you check out Swiss Chems.
After all my digging they are the most trusted, most often recommended brand in private bodybuilding FB groups and online biohacking communities.
Additional MK-2866 (Ostarine) & MK-677 (Nutrabol) Stack Quick FAQs
In case you were too lazy to read the log, below are some FAQ’s I squeezed out of my rat:
Q: What SARMs provider did you use for this study?
A: I used Enhanced Athlete’s SARMs for this experiment, simply because I was exposed to them first via Youtube and Instagram. I haven’t stopped researching quality suppliers though and have found Swiss Chems to be a much better source, both because they have transparent 3rd party testing and because they have a generally much higher reputation in bodybuilding circles around the web.
Q: Are SARMs worth it?
A: Depends on your starting point. Haven’t been lifting for 3+ years and not within 80-90% of your natty genetic potential? No.
If been lifting solid for 3+ years, with a well rounded program (full body, no biceps only bros), solid diet, and looking to step up without going full roids, then yes, do some research!
Q: Will I get gyno from Ostarine?
A: They don’t aromatize so you shouldn’t. You can supplement with some aromatize inhibitors. NOW Nutrition antioxidants is a good one.
RSP Prime T is another great test booster/estrogen controller, packed with DIM and DAA, so you can stop if need be and reverse trends.
That said everyone reacts differently, some people die from peanuts and bee stings, so research and caution is always warranted, with literally everything ingested in life.
Q: Will I get gyno from MK-677?
A: No, MK-677 is not a SARM, all it does is push your own system to naturally produce more GH.
Q: Can I stack Ostarine and MK-677?
A: Sure! Ostarine is the anabolic and MK-677 is the GH, this is a weaker, oral only version of what many bodybuilders do with injectables, such as test and GH peptides.
Q: Is Ostarine legal?
A: Yes, for research purposes, so don’t be an idiot.
Q: Can you drink alcohol while on Ostarine?
A: Probably shouldn’t but my rat did almost a week of 2-3 drinks daily without any “apparent” negative consequence. Same with MK-677.
Obviously, I can’t see my liver so who really knows. 6 months later though still kicking it and healthier than ever, so doubtful of any damage.
Q: Is MK-677 uncomfortable? Does it make you super tired?
A: MK-677 can make your limbs numb and make you a bit lazy; at least that’s my experience. The lethargy is comparable to the day after smoking pot and getting really high…just a little slow, calm and happy to curl up and take a nap.
Q: What’s the best time to take Ostarine?
A: Many recommend right away in the morning. 30-45 minutes before a workout was most fun for me as it seemed to increase quality. After the first week of 20mg ED dosing timing didn’t seem to matter quite as much.
Q: What’s the best time to take MK-677?
A: This one was odd. For the first week or so, taking MK before bed was a joy as it knocked me the fuck out quite quickly, putting me in deep solid sleep through the night
After the first week though sleep quality diminished and the sedative effect seemed reduced. I then started dosing it in the morning with breakfast and multivitamins/fish oil etc. Followed with coffee energy levels stayed functional.
Q: Are SARMs natty?
A: Natty and non-natty is not black and white. Protein powder and creatine monohydrate powders are not natty really, they are engineered supplements, and so are SARMs.
Got any other questions? Let us know in the comments below.